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Giuliani, 183 Recordings & the Media

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“These are tapes I want you to read. I want you to hear them. I didn’t think I’d be able to get them out publicly.” – Rudy Giuliani

Rudy Giuliani went on Face the Nation.

He had a few…surprises in store.

Some notable points from the interview:

  1. Giuliani: Obstruction by tweet is not something that I think works real well.
  2. President Trump may not need to testify precisely because of his tweets. “The reason he may not have to testify is he’s laid out his defense.”
  3. Michael Cohen taped Chris Cuomo. “A two hour recording that we now have.”
  4. Cohen taped dozens of reporters. “I didn’t know he would mislead dozens of reporters and tape them.”
  5. Cohen taped 183 unique conversations. “We know of something like 183 unique conversations on tape.”
  6. Only one taped conversation is with President Trump.
  7. There are 11-12 other taped conversations in which President Trump is discussed. These are primarily conversations with reporters and corroborate President Trump.
  8. Cohen didn’t like the Trump Campaign. [Cohen] “didn’t like the campaign, he says very derogatory things about the campaign.”
  9. Giuliani wants the tapes made public. “So these are tapes I want you to read. I want you to hear them. I didn’t think I’d be able to get them out publicly.”
  10. Cohen’s leaking of tapes has allowed Giuliani to begin discussing. “We’ve not leaked a single tape… However, we are allowed to refer to them if they put them out.”
  • A two hour recording of Chris Cuomo…
  • At least eleven other taped conversations with MSM Reporters discussing President Trump…
  • Cohen said “very derogatory things about the campaign.”
  • 183 unique conversations…

Giuliani has all the tapes that reference President Trump.

And Giuliani wants everyone to hear them.

Imagine the possibilities.

Here’s a great thread by Sundance from the Conservative Treehouse:

Giuliani’s interview is reasonably short (8:43) and easy to follow.

The video is here. The transcript below:

MARGARET BRENNAN: The New York Times is reporting that special counsel Robert Mueller is looking into whether the President’s tweets added up to any kind of obstruction of justice. Have you advised the President not to tweet – at least not to tweet about his attorney general?

RUDY GIULIANI: Good luck about tweeting. First of all, you know. Obstruction by tweet is not something that I think works real well. Generally, obstruction is secret. It’s clandestine. It’s corrupt. You don’t want the evidence out in the public – so it could be used against you. And I’ve looked at all those tweets and they don’t amount to anything.

But the man complaining about an unfair investigation – which even if he wasn’t the President – he has a First Amendment right to do that. I don’t think there’s anything there that gets them beyond the First Amendment.

And second, a lot of his tweets have been very helpful. The reason he may not have to testify is he’s laid out his defense. Clearly, like this whole Russian thing, he’s made it clear he didn’t know about the meeting beforehand…

MARGARET BRENNAN: You’re talking about the Trump Tower meeting that Michael Cohen apparently now says the President did know in advance about.

RUDY GIULIANI: I don’t see how you can believe Michael Cohen. Michael Cohen is also the guy that taped him without telling him.

Taped Chris Cuomo. Taking his cell phone and putting it in a drawer and saying I’m not recording it and then did a two hour recording that we now have. He did that at least four other times.

To my surprise he turns out to be almost an instinctual liar. So there’s no way this guy’s credibility is going to withstand four or five witnesses saying the exact opposite.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You called him an honest, honorable lawyer just a few weeks ago. What changed?

GIULIANI: How did I know? Why would I have not thought he was? I mean I never had a bad dealing with Michael. I was being straight and honest.

I didn’t know that he taped conversations surreptitiously. I didn’t know he would grossly violate the attorney-client privilege. I didn’t know he would mislead dozens of reporters and tape them all over the place, and pretend to them directly, ‘I’m not recording you.’

MARGARET BRENNAN: How much of the evidence that the FBI seized from Michael Cohen’s place of work and residence relates to the President, beyond tapes?

GIULIANI: Well let me see if I can make it about as clear as possible. We know of something like 183 unique conversations on tape.

One of those is with the President of the United States. That’s the three-minute one involving the McDougal payment- the AMI-McDougal payment.

There are 12 others, maybe 11 or 12 others out of the 183, in which the President is discussed at any length by Cohen, mostly with reporters.

All clearly corroborating what the President has said in detail on many of those tweets.

In other words, that he didn’t know about the payments to either one when it happened; that he only found out later; that Cohen made them not for the campaign – he didn’t like the campaign, he says very derogatory things about the campaign.

[Cohen] Said ‘I only made it because I personally love the President and Melania. And that’s why I made the payments,’ which takes it right out of the campaign contribution arsenal.

So these are tapes I want you to read. I want you to hear them. I didn’t think I’d be able to get them out publicly. And somehow, he and his lawyer have this crazy idea of just throw it all out there. I think they also don’t realize it’s going to hurt them with the prosecutors. When I was a prosecutor I didn’t want some guy giving out all the evidence to the press.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But you do want these tapes released now.

GIULIANI: I can’t do it. I mean I’m not allowed to do it. We’ve not leaked a single tape. I think if you check with the reporters who did the stories they’d tell you that. The Times came forward and made that clear. We don’t violate these rules. However, we are allowed to refer to them if they put them out. Why they’re putting them out? Someday, somebody is going to have to figure it out. But, they’re doing it.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You mentioned Karen McDougal. This recording that was made public earlier this week relates to her. She claims she did have a consensual affair with the President. But I want to ask you beyond this case – beyond Stormy Daniels – were other payments made to as yet unnamed women around the time of the 2016 campaign?

GIULIANI: There is a conversation about that. On one of the tapes in which I think Chris Cuomo asked him that. And Cohen says no. Denies it. Said that there were no other situations like this.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Was that an accurate statement by Cohen?

GIULIANI: As far as I know, yeah. I have no evidence to disprove that. And we’ve searched the records.

Remember, both these payments were made – at least the McDougal payment – was going to be made through a corporation. Well you’re hardly going to make an illegal contribution through a corporation. And that whole dispute about check or cash – it really couldn’t have been done any other way but by check. It’s a corporation, after all, making the payment.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But, you maintain that payment didn’t actually occur.

GIULIANI: That one didn’t happen for reasons I guess that AMI wanted to keep it, they probably saw a value in keeping it. I know a lot of people raise questions about it but it’s pretty clear from the tape. This is a straight out and out legal and business transaction.

MARGARET BRENNAN: The CFO for the Trump Organization, Allen Weisselberg, was subpoenaed this week to testify in the criminal probe around Michael Cohen. Does any of this cross that red line that the President has said in terms of touching his own personal finances?

GIULIANI: No. I think these are about the things we’re talking about to see are they corroborated – and they are – or they could be about other things that they may have some knowledge of that Cohen was doing. Independent of the President.

I should finish that discussion of the tapes by telling you that yes there are 183. The President’s on one, mentioned on 12 others.

There are then an untold number of other tapes that have no relation to us. Meaning President Trump. That have to do I guess with what the Southern District originally raided him for.

Those tapes, I don’t know what’s on those.

Now if they related to us the government would have to give it to us. The government has been totally ethical about this. So, I don’t believe there’s any question, but there’s a lot there for them to investigate.

And you know when you just look at a box you can’t tell what it contains, but I sure wouldn’t want to have that box in the FBI’s possession if it was me.

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